Honda Insight vs Leon Ecomotive

Irony...

... to discuss fuel economy and then to see what the consequence is of Japan being an economic powerhouse (55 nuclear power plants in a country that's earthquake prone), consumers wanting an affordable automobile every 3-4 years.

By voyager on 15 March, 2011, 7:35am

Diesel 5p/l more than petrol

No mention of the fact that diesel costs at least 5p per litre more than petrol, and isn't quite as 'clean' as petrol. CO2 is a harmless aerial plant food 'tax gas', so AE should look at the HC and NOx as well. I prefer the Insight.

By biggsy24 on 15 March, 2011, 7:43am

Electric is rubbish

For the short sighted comment regarding electric vs diesel go check how environmental it is to manufacture then dispose of or recycle hundreds of batteries before you start banging on about co2 emissions.

By Bugeye on 15 March, 2011, 5:30pm

Diesel is the only viable option for economy

Hybrids are expensive cause massive damage to the enviroment due to the extraction of metals from the ground for the batteries.So a Diesel has to be better i get 50% more MPG from my car than i would with a gutless petrol equivelent.Most modern diesels emit very low levels of nasty gases also they dont smoke anymore.The only polluters left are the old wrecks that the tree huggers and enviromentalists drive,i.e old beetles,2cv's,campervans etc.

By nickbsmooth on 17 March, 2011, 8:27pm

Are these super economical diesels available with an auto box?

I like to own a car which costs as little to run as possible but also prefer to drive a car with an automatic gearbox. Therefore, hybrids seem to offer a solution. Hybrids are not perfect, although no car is environmentally perfect, but hybrids appear to offer the best of both worlds. Also, I suspect that hybrids are more popular in the USA where fewer drivers like to drive diesel powered cars. I understand that the batteries fitted to hybrids are recyclable plus very few family sized diesel engine cars are available with an auto' gearbox.

By whittleseam on 19 March, 2011, 12:24pm

Costs and preferences

Biggsy24 comments on the fuel price difference between petrol & diesel, but does not seem to have looked at the facts & figures table which includes a fuel cost calculation showing the diesel wins hands down. Personally I believe the hybrid solution at present is only a viable solution to low mileage inner city applications where considerable time is spent at very low speeds in electric only modes. High mileage use favours a diesel by a considerable margin, especially when judged on total ownership cost & ease of ownership.

By hermann_kratz on 22 March, 2011, 5:59pm

DPF

And I forgot to mention the often problematic Diesel Particulate Filter that petrol hybrids don't have or need.

By biggsy24 on 29 March, 2011, 7:37am

A combination?

Why not combine the diesel engine with the electric motors? Surely then it's best of both?

By gdmcg on 29 March, 2011, 5:28pm

The full facts please

The same old mis-truths being spread over and over again. So how about this, current manufacture and recycling of batteries is a safe, clean operation in the right hands. Drilling for oil sometimes isn't - Gulf of Mexico, Exxon Valdez, etc. The amount of electricity to run a refinery is the equivalent of that to power a small city, from well to wheel you're looking at the best part of 500g/Km. A fully electric car (which the Insight isn't) will not need all the other chemicals that are needed by IC engines (anti-freeze, oil, ELOYS, etc.) so there's less environmental problems and less profit for the oil companies, are these really the ones that bought the rights to some technologies to stop car manufacturers using them... We can generate more electricity given the right infrastructure but we can't generate enough fossil fuels to power our current society. Arguing against electric/hybrid vehicles won't solve the problems we have and have coming. If there isn't a genuine replacement for fossil fuel vehicles then we'll have to use the next best thing when the oil runs out or start walking, I know which I would prefer to do. Finally, how many committed petrol heads are prepared to go and fight in foreign countries to secure such supplies? I'm not, I'm too old for one thing but on top of that I'd rather run a car on electricity generated here or in Europe. I don't own a hybrid yet but if I had the money I'd buy one tomorrow.

By steelcityuk on 30 March, 2011, 11:17am

The full facts please

The same old mis-truths being spread over and over again. So how about this, current manufacture and recycling of batteries is a safe, clean operation in the right hands. Drilling for oil sometimes isn't - Gulf of Mexico, Exxon Valdez, etc. The amount of electricity to run a refinery is the equivalent of that to power a small city, from well to wheel you're looking at the best part of 500g/Km. A fully electric car (which the Insight isn't) will not need all the other chemicals that are needed by IC engines (anti-freeze, oil, ELOYS, etc.) so there's less environmental problems and less profit for the oil companies, are these really the ones that bought the rights to some technologies to stop car manufacturers using them... We can generate more electricity given the right infrastructure but we can't generate enough fossil fuels to power our current society. Arguing against electric/hybrid vehicles won't solve the problems we have and have coming. If there isn't a genuine replacement for fossil fuel vehicles then we'll have to use the next best thing when the oil runs out or start walking, I know which I would prefer to do. Finally, how many committed petrol heads are prepared to go and fight in foreign countries to secure such supplies? I'm not, I'm too old for one thing but on top of that I'd rather run a car on electricity generated here or in Europe. I don't own a hybrid yet but if I had the money I'd buy one tomorrow.

By steelcityuk on 30 March, 2011, 11:18am

Prefer the Insight

I would take the Insight over the Leon as I dont like tractor engines and have always owned petrols. I would admit that diesels these days have come a long way but for me a hybrid is a more modern, high tech solution to economical motoring.

By cousins11 on 5 April, 2011, 2:41pm

Hydrogen is the only way

Everybody is on about fossil fuels and which is best. But the only way forward is Hydrogen. No emissions = Argument over

By THREEPOINTEDSTAR on 7 April, 2011, 10:00pm

blinkster

Yo steelcityuk , you say you would buy a hybrid.; I've looked & read & as far as I'm concerned , they're a farce. I just finished reading in C&D the Volkswagen Crossover Diesel vs hybrid K & K before taxes & reality showed 17MPG. I own a Ford Edge & a Duramax Diesel & keep track of mileage on both &only mods are K&N air filters,synth oil & chip for the diesel & I get 22.4mpg town & 28.9 hwy for the Edge & I can tow either our 32ft 5th wheel or 26ft boat & get 17mpg.. Yes there was a disaster in the Gulf , funny BP EH ! . I live in Alberta where we have Tar Sands. & are starting to bury CO2. The big lawsuit about polluting our river is a Danish producer in Ft Mc Murray who did it for yrs & was just caught. Holdon the Spanish are almost ready to take CO2 & algae & make oil.Bottom line hybrids have to go a long way yet.

By blinkster on 9 April, 2011, 5:23am

Full Hybrids = Full Nonsense

What is a hybrid? A vehicle that converts chemical energy into mechanical (ICE) - then into electricity (generator) - then into another chemical formula (in the batteries) - then back into electricity - and finally into mechanical propulsion. So why not cut out the middle stages and produce directly propulsion from chemical energy? Like in all non-hybrid drive systems! All those claims of efficiency and pollution decrease are ridiculous and are product of biased tests (like when the batteries are fully charged). Only one thing in hybrids makes some sense, the breaking energy regeneration. But then you don't need a full hybrid to use it as the merits are negligible compared to the added weight and complexity of the extra gear.

By Stivans on 9 April, 2011, 1:34pm

Why did what car not compare the Diesel Leon to the new Prius?
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And to Stivans, Hybrids are not nonsense as I drive a prius and I can tell you 65 mpg is very good for a petrol automatic with such power and it's a big enough car. SO they are not as useless as you think, as usual people talk without having experience with such vehicles, because if you had experience with them you wouldn't talk bad about them, not the prius anyway, but the insight is not so good!
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It can match the claimed 75 mpg of the Leon, and beats it's emissions.

I can get 65 mpg easy in my 07 Prius, which does 55 mpg @ 75 mph 2 mpg better than my A4 Diesel Auto, urban driving 30-60 mph I can easily achieve 60-65+ mpg, and that's 20-25 better than the A4 Diesel in urban traffic! Who wants or needs diesel again? best part it only cost me 8500 Euros second hand, and similar diesels would have cost me nearly 12000.

So straight away the Prius wins hands down!

Diesels are rubbish in towns and cities Ive driven them for years, even a 1.0L petrol is far more economical in towns and cities and cheaper to buy! 50-55 mpg on the motorway drops to 40 or less in town and city traffic.

Worst of all the E.U concentrates on C02 rather than the more toxic and carcinogenic emissions which has a far greater impact on human health at a cost of billions to the taxpayer in healthcare!

I say they should completely ban Diesel fuel and stop diesels being driven in our towns and cities!

I agree with THREEPOINTEDSTAR above, I believe Hydrogen is the answer, but of course Europe isn't even talking about a Hydrogen infrastructure only more tax!

The Mercedes F-cell will be available in 2015 and we have no Hydrogen Infrastructure. 130 hp and 400 miles range at the right storage pressure.

We need a lot more Nuclear power to make hydrogen, and L.F.T.R Thorium reactors seem to be the way forward, but of course the E.U will continue to build uranium reactors with far more consequences if things go wrong!

Advantages of Thorium l.f.t.r

Much safer, no possibility of melt down,

less than 1% waste,

Can burn up old waste from current reactors,

Can't make bombs from it,

1 tonne Thorium = 200 tonnes of Uranium = 3.5 Million tonnes of coal.

Can be turned on and off when required, with no danger,

No need for wind turbines scattered all over the country and having to build ultra expensive distributing networks to the existing grid.

Can be almost 100% energy independent!

This technology has been staring us in the face for decades and uranium was chosen instead to make Nuclear weapons! that is sad indeed, and the Nuclear industry now is not willing to change direction because it will cost them, meanwhile we live with the threat of current reactor designs, and have anti nuclear activists screaming no nuclear!

By Mad_Lad on 20 April, 2011, 11:07am

Hmmm

Reading all the comments there, I think yer all full of crap!!!

By Leonidas on 25 April, 2011, 2:22pm

Full Hybrids = Full Nonsense continued

Yes, I have driven a Prius for a month (rental, old model in LA) and mileage was jolly good. Provided one drives it "appropriately". Has anybody seen the Top Gear test where a Prius consumed more than a Porsche 911 on the track while keeping the same pace (obviously the Porsche driver had to check his mirrors all the time not to run away)? This is the key point, hybrids CAN be driven economically when performance is not required, in all other situations I wouldn't bet on them. Like "my" Prius, in the stop & go city traffic was perfect (I even thought it will start filling the tank) , when I took it up the mountains and the juice was up... then quite a different story.

By Stivans on 27 April, 2011, 10:30pm