On-the-spot fines for bad drivers

What about the people that cause others to undertake!
I use the motorways everyday and the amount of people that sit in the outside lane with a clear middle lane is infuriating. Will they be penalised for causing the obstruction? we have all seen people blatantly ignoring the rules, We all need to take more care and treat other drivers the way we would want to be treated.

By dmcbadaz on 11 May, 2011, 4:45pm

What about the people that cause others to undertake!
I use the motorways everyday and the amount of people that sit in the outside lane with a clear middle lane is infuriating. Will they be penalised for causing the obstruction? we have all seen people blatantly ignoring the rules, We all need to take more care and treat other drivers the way we would want to be treated.

By dmcbadaz on 11 May, 2011, 4:50pm

About time

For far too long good drivers have been penalised for occasionally straying a few mph over sometimes questionable speed limits, paying more attention to the road and hazards rather than constantly monitoring their speedometers, so its good to see something is finally going to be done about real dangerous driving.

Every day I encounter stupid idiots tail-gating, cutting up, poor lane discipline, not indicating, the list goes on and on. And most of these arrogant imbeciles then want to fight you for an accident they've almost caused!

Bring it on - as long as they include reckless travel by all types of road users.

By gavsmit on 11 May, 2011, 5:46pm

Undertaking is not illegal

It's the manner in which you do it that makes it illegal and currently this has to be decided by magistrates because of the number of factors that often need to be taken into consideration.

Undertaking on the inside is pretty normal and virtually essential on a densely packed motorway when the speed differential is not significant. However undertaking on the inside at great speed when there is a clear risk of an accident is a completely different matter. I wouldn't want a policeman making that decision if I had the choice.

Many of the offences that are being included in this suggestion from the government fall unto the same category as the example above for similar reasons. Given the possibility of a fixed penalty or a day in court you could well be better off with the latter. And that's speaking as someone involved in the legal process (not a solicitor).

By SLKManiac on 11 May, 2011, 7:02pm

Don't sit in the overtaking lanes - MOVE IN

The drivers the government should expect police to target are those idiots that sit in the middle lane of the motorway although the inside lane is clear.

MOVE OVER - the 2 outside lanes are for overtaking, when you have passed pull back in to the inside lane.

By biggraham on 12 May, 2011, 8:40am

Will this not cause Traffic Jams ?

Will this not cause Traffic Jams whilst slow lane users have to wait behind a congested fast lane ?
Tailgating seems to occur on slow motorways, I find on fast European motorways, autobahns, drivers allow plenty of stopping distance between cars and pull over when they have overtaken.

By tjetters on 12 May, 2011, 8:48am

The Real Consequences

I don't think this is a good idea at all.

As night follows day this will inevitably result in 3 points and a fine for one of the parties at almost every accident the police are called to or come across when just driving about.

Given our overcrowded and over-complicated road system, minor accidents are often caused by confusion and momentary distraction : SImply trying to work out which lane to be in and making sure you don't intrude into a bus lane are perfect examples and can already result in an automatic fine.

This is always going to be a problem

Minor accidents already cause enough expense and distress, not to mention the amount of time they take up, without the additional worry of a fine and the effect on your driving licence.

In no other area of our lives are people punished for making a simple error. Why should driving be any different ?

By HFEVO2 on 12 May, 2011, 8:58am

Tail-gaters, then balkers

Tail-gating is never truly justified, period. However, as mentioned by others previously, it's the balkers who contantly sit in the middle and RH lanes who need their asses kicking before those (un-marked police cars included) who they force to under-take in order to make required progress.

By SFaulder on 12 May, 2011, 9:14am

Tail-gaters, then balkers

Tail-gating is never truly justified, period. However, as mentioned by others previously, it's the balkers who contantly sit in the middle and RH lanes who need their asses kicking before those (un-marked police cars included) who they force to under-take in order to make required progress.

By SFaulder on 12 May, 2011, 9:14am

Centre Lane Owners Club

It's good to debate these issues, but we all know that the type of person who spends their entire motorway journey in the middle lane isn't one who reads car magazines. I came down the 4 lane A1M between Peterborough and Cambridge last week and there were any amount of 'drivers' using the 3rd lane whilst the inner two were empty! What is it about these people?

By billmarsh4 on 12 May, 2011, 9:18am

If only they put as much effort in to getting the real criminals

So now the police get more powers to stop more motorists, to generate more money, to use valuable police resources to nick a "generally" good human being instead of get feet on the beat walking and monitoring street corners and outside pubs and clubs, why they hell don’t thy just change the law to control ALL cars by gps, and then insist everyone is trained to Advanced level? I will tell you why because it would take away valuable income and they would then have to be more REAL police doing REAL work. I want my kids to walk safely on the streets at any time of the day. They generally can drive on most roads safely!

By mbkk44 on 12 May, 2011, 9:23am

Stuart

You cant help but think this is not a good thing for the average motorist. Its going to catch most of us out somewhere along the way. So it must be a money generated thought. and its the poor old motorist again, O.M.G when will they stop. The other thought is how about the num-skuls who drive at 0mph in a 30 limits that clog our rds and frustrate the hell out of the average jo. There has to be an answer to that ! if we are going to accept this. Not that we have a choice!

By stuart3152 on 12 May, 2011, 9:41am

Agree / Disagree

I'm in agreement/disagreement with a few people here.
Firstly I have to say that mbkk44 is right, it seems at times that the law in the UK almost doesn't exsist anymore and real criminals are having their heyday whilst having better protection and seemingly more rights than the rest of us.
However I feel that one of the reasons that keeps police officers from being out and about is the amount of red tape and paperwork involved in what should be a 'practical' job. Therefore I think that the police should have greater on the spot powers. A greater police presence with teeth also encourages people to act responsibly and that has to be a good thing.
I spend a lot of time visiting relatives in the USA and there people have a much greater respect of the police in general and also a 'healthy' wariness of them too.

By robgriffiths68 on 12 May, 2011, 9:47am

Mr

We have had such laws in Spain for a couple of years now, but it is important that many unmarked police cars and motorcycles are there to enforce them as many will just ignore them. Accident rates have plummeted in recent years here, but the highest cause of deaths is still speeding with 80& of this reason only involving one vehicle, a sure sign that much more advanced education is required. With other causes such as using a mobile on ear while driving, a big fine and confiscation of the mobile should result, but the main attitude has to be changed to courtesy everywhere. But we notice that the aggressive drivers here are usually in UK-plated cars especially speeding in residential areas. Perhaps they think the speed signs are in mph not kph?

By bjdeller1 on 12 May, 2011, 10:34am

Traffic Jams ?

In the USA they encourage undertaking to avoid congestion.

By tjetters on 12 May, 2011, 10:44am

It's not just undertaking

We're close to anarchy on our roads if Belfast is a typical example. Drivers going through red lights long after they've changed, undertaking and THEN turning immediately RIGHT(!) and cyclists ignoring the roads and using the pavements instead. And not a traffic cop in sight.

The fines would easily pay for the cost of the extra staff so, PSNI, get on with it!

By lairdfp on 12 May, 2011, 11:07am

Fine the lane hoggers first

In most cases of undertaking that I have seen on the motorways, it is the lane hoggers that seem to cause it. Surely the police should have the powers to fine these people first. The type of driver that stays in the middle and or outside lane whilst the inside lane is clear. These drivers need to be educated in sensible driver or removed from the roads.

By Rych1506 on 12 May, 2011, 11:10am

Education Education Education

Tailgaters, undertakers, balkers, drivers using deffective vehicles especially lighting, those who dont indicate especially at roundabouts and those who dont cancell their indicators and many more are examples of drivers making driving unsafe for all drivers! Yes on-the-spot fines will be deterant. I think we can go further through education - in driving lessons, in schools and using such media as Television by having National Education for Drivers Advertising (NEDA) during prime viewing time. Why not establish the Driving 3Rs Respect, be Respectable and Responsibility for other road users safety!

By tekmcnm on 12 May, 2011, 11:30am

Green Cops & Invisable ones

There are insufficient police working correctly to check on traffic offenders, only seeking out tax disc & insrance evasion. Easy pickings, require little brain work. The bad drivers, if caught, will often be without licence, as well as tax & Insurance, and the proof is more sustainable to get them off the road. However, it seems that most offenders are not of UK residential status, so fines of any kind remain unpaid. Those who are of UK status will find the expenditure of a fine for minor error or infringement is sent directly into the National Financial Deficit Dept. Plus, some cops are so green behind the ears, that they will not see the causation of an error which is not that of the individual who is seen in the "wrong" situation, e.g. Box junctions, 'bus lane users etc.
Get cops trained to deal with real dangers not income generation.

By firewinger on 12 May, 2011, 12:03pm

Bad Drivers [ Police ]

If the Police are given the powers to give on the spot fines,They must be accountable for there driving [fines etc].There will be very poor police drivers out there. The police are the worst drivers in the country,when other drivers realise that the police should not be called Oficer unless they are an Inspector or above.As for my driving,I am a long distance HGV ,PSV driver also hold Blue light licence,I agree with firewinger.
by jmac

By jmachray on 12 May, 2011, 12:28pm

Ignorant drivers

With the offences detailed above and their proposed fine structure, I agree in principle that it will help the police, as it is a fixed penalty and therefore, have very little extra admin required behind the scenes to prosecute the offender. I do hope they are also going to address the individuals actions that sometimes cause these offences to occur.

For example, I mean those people who drive in the middle of the road at low speeds (nothing else around them - thats just how they want to drive), this obviously affects large vans and wagons as if they will be fined for performing undertakes even when it is safe - and as we know these vehicles are not allowed in the fast lane. When in fact the police should address those inconsiderate and ignorant drivers.

Also another example, what about the drivers that drive in the fast lane of the motorway irrespective of any other cars in the same carriageway, and they are cruising at slightly less than 70mph. They see you coming but don't move in - they are propably thinking "I have paid my road tax and therefore I am entitled to drive here!!". I do hope they will have tickets and endorsements available to them to use in these instances as it is these individuals that put other road users in joerpardy and can cause drivers to take illegal manoevres.

By taurean4 on 12 May, 2011, 11:25pm

The real point.

The real point here is about the seperation of powers, the police should report offenders to the judicary, who should then decide innocence or guilt and the required punishment. The police should not be asked to punish offenders, it is not their role and to do so is an affront to democracy verging on the criminal. This whole debate is a smoke-screen anyway, there are existing laws to deal with bad driving, what is missing are the traffic patrols to enforce these laws, the proposed new powers will do nothing to improve this. When the Chief Constables stop regarding the motorist as sub-humans and start re-instating a reasonable level of traffic officers we might get the protection and service that we have paid for and are intitled to with the added benefit that traffic patrols are excellent at reducing other sorts of crime also.

By rjsorr1 on 12 May, 2011, 11:33pm

drove in the US recently

and there is no problem with lane hoggers at all. They have lane hoggers, as many as we do but with overtaking allowed on either side as part of the accepted practice there is a calm on the Freeways that is not visible here in the UK and progress is rapid. I thought overtaking on eitherside was going to be considred by the Tories along with being allowed to turn left at a red light?

By sanghanip on 13 May, 2011, 8:52am

drove in the US recently

and there is no problem with lane hoggers at all. They have lane hoggers, as many as we do but with overtaking allowed on either side as part of the accepted practice there is a calm on the Freeways that is not visible here in the UK and progress is rapid. I thought overtaking on eitherside was going to be considred by the Tories along with being allowed to turn left at a red light?

By sanghanip on 13 May, 2011, 8:54am

u.s.a

Don't use the USA as an example; their crash & death rates are astronomical, and their big lorries are not speed restricted-getting passed by two 40footers either side of you isn't funny.
Some of the crashes they have out there are unbelievable becasue of the mass and speed differentials.
But agree that lane hoggers should be penalised as they cause not only stress but phantom queues, and only serve to remind that they are driving without due care, being oblivious in a two-ton vehicel is not a good idea...
And also the people who pull out, either in lanes or at junctions and then don't accelerate, causing the guy behind to slam on anchors---that drives me nuts...

By hopsa2305 on 13 May, 2011, 12:03pm

CLOD

People who hog outside lanes are called CLODs, as I was told it is an English saying, central lane only drivers.
Happens all around the world police need to come down hard on these idiots. When I drive north from Sydney you have 4 lanes, frequently I flash my lights for people to get over from lane 4 and they dont. I have to then undertake them and sometimes can do it in lane 1 as there is nothing in lane 1-2 or 3. I had 2 cars travelling behind me on the pacific highway at easter for 30-40 km's stuck in the outside lane of a 2 lane highway. They didnt budge even though most of the time I was in lane 1, people were just undertaking them.

By drzack on 14 May, 2011, 5:44am

There must be instant police penalties!

It works in most of Europe - and has done for many years - so why not in the UK! There must also be new laws such as no overtaking for trucks on steep gradients like the road out of Dover which is quite often the venue for truck " Elephant Racing" at the cost of serious danger to mere car drivers!

Trucks should also be banned from motorways and main roads on Sundays and Bank Holidays - it works in Europe so start doing it in the UK!

By vandenplas4litre on 15 May, 2011, 5:40pm

Middle Lane Hoggers

EXCELLENT!!!

I'm in favour of this if it only helps my biggest plight of motorway driving in the UK currently. I hope this would mean an end to the infuriating & congestion causing ignoramus middle lane hoggers!!

PLEASE HAVE SOME AWARENESS & ROAD MANNORS, THEN BLOODY MOVE TO THE FAR LEFT ONCE YOU'VE COMPLETED YOUR PASS & WHEN ITS SAFE TO DO SO!

There are others but this tops - i dare say this would have a significant effect on motorway congestion. Undertaking; non-issue necessarily for me - circumstances, common sense etc dictate this one and should be lawfully to the discretion of the Traffic Police - if you're a knob then you should rightly be fined. Common Sense should previal!

In terms of penalties - Points or Costs not bothered as long as it has some impact to make drivers aware and teach them proper road manor, safety & awareness. If that means myself for what-ever reason then so-be-it, i can only strive to do whats best but i don't know it all!

By srtyler on 24 May, 2011, 4:31pm

"SPEED KILLS!" ... No actually, it's largely inattention that kills.

Successive Governments have peddled this for years, ignoring by far the greatest factor in road injury and death. This myopia has lead to the majority of road safety budgets being diverted to anti-speed campaigns, rather than the root of the problem.

The stats are conclusive and overwhelming. Yet despite this, the focus remains on fining folk for travelling over an arbitrary limit, rather than fining the lunatics we all see day and daily pulling out from junctions directly in front of us, overtaking when overtaking isn't viable, sitting up our a*** in a chain of fast moving traffic and generally being knobs.

Or am I wrong?!?

By FloatingVoter on 28 May, 2011, 11:53am

will hurt BMW man most

The most arrogant, selfish, Que jumping bad drivers on the road!

By liverpool on 22 June, 2011, 6:51pm