Honda CR-Z

Hybrid Yet Not Economical!!

What is the point in this car?

I drive a new Ibiza Sport Coupe 1.6 TDI CR diesel engine
Economy: 67 MPG
0-60 time: 10.1 seconds
BHP 105
Torque 245 Nm (184 pounds)
Cost £13,700

So the CR-Z has very similar performance to my diesel, costs at least £3300 more (for a basic model), has no rear visibility, in my opinion does not look as good as the ibiza and is much less economical.

Can anyone tell me why they would by this car over a diesel supermini????

By gaffer1986 on 15 March, 2010, 1:16pm

On the surface - a good question!

Thing is - you car will not deliver 67MPG see:

http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/seat/ibiza-hatchback/readers-reviews/25832-5?resultPage=1&resultPageCount=4

Is noise on the outside and pumps out some very nasty pollution.

By truegreen on 15 March, 2010, 2:44pm

CR-Z

Sounds like the way to go for the future in providing cars that go reasonably well without bad emissions and can stop when you need to. More fun than a Prius and safer. My CRX was great fun when I had it.

By Mike_the_Trike on 15 March, 2010, 3:38pm

This just goes on to show how much scope there is for a diesel electric hybrid

By mihirgadre on 15 March, 2010, 3:38pm

0-60 in 10 seconds, ha ha and thats sporting is it.
Hybrids are a product of a "Global Warming Scam" and have been proven worthless and uneconomical. This follows the same route.

By johnbmwx6 on 15 March, 2010, 6:33pm

That rear glass similar to the Civic would drive me mad!
Crap performance, crap figures.
Either use the battery for performance or economy!
Not both!!

By lucasworld on 15 March, 2010, 11:20pm

I too, can see little point to this car!

truegreen where did you get the 67mpg figure from?.....I read 56.4.

I would still go for a Mini D over this anyday. Cheaper and I think an all round better car. (even has 4 useable seats)

The controls look awful, far too busy.

By Talnoy on 16 March, 2010, 7:53am

Redefining motoring terms?

So, "Honda’s revolutionary new performance hybrid" ??

'revolutionary' - NO , hybrid petrol/electric, the common formula

'new' - well I suppose this 'assemblage' is new...

'performance' - No, afraid not, not by current standards

'economy' - NO, nothing special compared with the current small turbo -diesels

But of course "The speedometer ring also changes colour to suit " so that could be a big pull???

Looks like a cynical 'green' marketing exercise to me.

km

By kmdriftwood on 16 March, 2010, 9:30am

Slow, Not economical compared to latest tech and impractical

I have an 04 fabia VRS and like the performance, practicality and economy. I’m on the lookout for the next thing to take my fancy. Elsewhere in this weeks edition you see the latest BMW 520d economy version and it delivers better fuel economy better CO2 emissions, better performance and its massive. Why would someone buy this Honda? No usable back seat, performance is grey at best and the economy is nothing to write home about. I know the BMW is more than twice the price but Honda should be doing better than those figures considering what the car is meant to stand for. BMW could tie in their 2.0d with an electric motor in the 1 series and wipe the floor with this excuse for an economical performance car.

TRY AGAIN HONDA!

By johnmagnus on 16 March, 2010, 12:25pm

AAAAAAAAAA

Johnbmwx6,

If you think hybrids are a scam take a look at the new Toureg.

This technology is already better than conventional arrangements and has a long way to go. The efficiency gains will turn in to better overall performance across the entire vehicle spectrum. The quicker it comes the better for all of us.

By burtondd on 16 March, 2010, 12:57pm

The CRZ is a Chicks Car!

In my opinion, the Honda CRZ's appearance and "very mild" performance figures are focused directly at the American female car buyer!

I guess us car guys will have to wait for some else to develop what we are looking for!?

Honda is just to conservative

By swfloridaUSA on 16 March, 2010, 1:09pm

AAAAAAAAAAAAA

In reply to your comments.
Read this:New VW Touareg summary

Model
3.0-litre V6 TDI
3.3-litre V6 Hybrid
4.2-litre V8 TDIPower (bhp)
237
375
335Average economy
38.1mpg
34.4mpg
31mpgCO2 emissions
195g/km
193g/km
239g/km
Your Hybrid does an average of 34.4MPH with all it's sophistication where as the diesel does 38.1MPG, with LESS emissions go figure.

By johnbmwx6 on 16 March, 2010, 5:57pm

Type R Version

Come on Honda get on and make a Type R Version. I couldn't face getting one of the nasty new CIVIC Type R's and my EP3 is getting a bit long in the tooth.

By oliver144 on 17 March, 2010, 9:39pm

gaffer1986 and diesel supermini????

Why would I want a diesel in a small coupe over a petrol-hybrid? And why would I want a VAG product over a Honda?

Sorry but an Ibiza is not really a competitor to this CR-Z is it?

No it (the Seat) does not look better, its not going to last as long or be fault free and its not as desirable a product...Nothing on the road looks vaguely similiar to this Honda!

The whole point of hybrid-petrols is that they provide all the benefits of a diesel...Low-down torque with good fuel economy, whilst enjoying the benefits of a petrol i.e rev-range, pleasant engine sounds and peak power reached higher up the rev range encouraging sporting driving and gear changes...And they dont spew out toxic pollutants to the same degree as diesel...

Look forward to seeing the forthcoming Mugen performance version!

Gaffer1986, face the facts, diesels are for cabbies and long distance reps...Give me petrol anyday and evenbetter give me a hybrid-petrol!

p.s: 0-60 time is actually quoted at 9.2s or about the same as a Puma 1.7...fast enough for a warm coupe. (not as if this matters)

By LegioIXHispana on 22 March, 2010, 9:53pm

Diesel supermini query answered.

In response to LegioIXHispana

You obviously haven't driven the latest generation of diesel engines. Very quiet, very low CO2 emissions, DPF gets rid of 85 - 100 % of soot.

For £16000 you can buy an Ibiza FR diesel with 140 BHP, 0-60 in about 8.7 seconds, fuel economy 60 + MPG.

Whats wrong with VAG products? It makes the Honda look, overpriced, slow and less economical.

There is 125 000 BTUs of energy in a litre of petrol
There is 150 000 BTUs of energy in a litre of diesel

I am not saying diesels are the future, i think electric vehicles with exchangable batteries are the future. But for the next five or so years diesels are the winner. Why be the test guinea pig?

By gaffer1986 on 23 March, 2010, 12:35pm

Diesel...chug chug chug, VW konk konk konk!

Yes gaffer1986 I have driven an Audi A3 TDI 2.0 recently and I was most relieved to get back in my petrol Audi that had gone into the dealers for it to be fixed (at the time)...A common occurrence with VAG products in my experiences!

I switched to Honda after having a string of VW`s and Audis and can certainly say I know whom makes the better cars...And it has the H on it!

When diesels first came out, people were generally very reluctant to change to them...Lots of money and development later, they are now acceptable! (money that would have been better spent on developing petrol engines IMO)

However now we have a new dawn arriving, where we have the pleasure of owning petrol engines combined with the IMA electric motors, thus achieving everything a diesel can, but also have a more pleasurable driving character!

As for this little CR-Z, I believe Honda isn't aiming it at the boy-racer, go-faster types of bore...Its a small-stylish coupe that fits in a niche of being the first warm-hybrid available in a similiar vein to what the Puma and Tigra of the 90`s were...

Any Honda purchaser can always buy the Champ-White Civic Type R, ( quicker than both Scirocco and Golf Gti round its test track according to EVO mag) find a nearly new S2000 or get a new Japanese spec Integra type R or Japanese spec Civic Type R...Of course people can always wait for the Mugen Cr-Z if the want the first genuine hybrid-sports coupe(?)

By LegioIXHispana on 23 March, 2010, 5:20pm

Final Incredulation over Gaffer1986

Whats wrong with VAG products? It makes the Honda look, overpriced, slow and less economical.

Now lets compare the price of range for range and spec for spec

By LegioIXHispana on 23 March, 2010, 5:32pm

Example

Say I had 20k to spend on a Golf or a Civic

I could get a 1.4 Golf GT 3dr with 158bhp for £19250 approx or for the same price a Civic Type R with 198bhp and more kit!

Hmmm no brainer!

Say I had 10k to spend

I could get a Honda Jazz 1.2 with 89 bhp and 5drs or a Polo 1.2S with 60bhp and 3drs.

Hmmm no brainer!

Could go on, but I`d bore myself...

So gaffer your assertions about pricing and performance are miles out...Didnt bother checking fuel economy figures as I`m not that destitute enough.

By LegioIXHispana on 23 March, 2010, 5:41pm

I was talking about SEATs

I agree with you totally regarding price.

VWs are overpriced SEATs (young people)
VWs are overpriced Skoda's (old people)
Audi's are overpiced VWs. This makes Audi's very overpriced.

Please don't move the goal posts as i was talking about the very well priced Ibiza compared with CR-Z. Not the civic vs golf battle.

The Audi A3 2.0 TDI is an older style PD (pump duse) diesel engine.
The 2.0 TDI fitted to the SEAT Ibiza FR is the newer style CR (common rail) engine with a diesel particulate filter and is very very quiet, it even sounds petrol like under hard acceleration.

Point taken a petrol is less noisy than any modern diesel, however these days not by much.

I was just saying that you can buy more economical cars with similar performance to the CR-Z for a lot less money. And with out the Fat Ugly Behinds modern Hondas have.

My Honda of Choice - EP3 Civic Type R. The newer FN2 is very ugly. But i would choose a Leon Cupra over both as the EP3 is long in the tooth these days. (Bit like most Honda drivers) lol.

This message was written by a 22 year old owner of a Brand New Ibiza Sport Coupe TDI CR who is loving his new car - even though it is not as reliable as a Honda.

By gaffer1986 on 24 March, 2010, 1:50pm

Diesels Kill. Sensationalist? Yeah quite a bit, but ultimately true

>> Can anyone tell me why they would by this car over a diesel supermini????

Diesel fueled engines release harmful pollutants.

I'm not just talking about soot / carbon (which has been linked with ailments from asthma to artery blockages + heart disease), the soot issue benefits from being visible, so now we legislate aggressively to help kerb that. I'd just like to point out that i don't necessarily agree with using legislation to encourage people not to choose a soot producing vehicle.

There's also the nitrogen, carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons (commonly released as white smoke, in various conditions). We legislate against these too.

But what about the pollutants dieseasal's produce (benzine, formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, butadiene.. etc), which aren't in the minds of the public, and therefore aren't on any political agendas and therefore continue to pollute, and utlimately kill, relatively unchecked.



What really bugs me, is someone defending their choice of dieseasal as a green choice. It's a money saving choice and absolutely detrimental to a person's "green" credentials. Please, gaffer1986, do not misrepresent your choice of dieseasal as anything less than a short sighted money grab.

P.S. this post is a bit more strongly worded than otherwise i would have written...

By Diseasal on 25 March, 2010, 2:20pm

Priorities

Honda would rather that one thought of this as a small sports car before thinking of it as a hybrid. That's how they designed and engineered it, at least, hence the 6-speed Manual. It is a shame that you can't drive short distances on electricity only, but the sports aspect seems to be good. I read somewhere that for a car to be fun it needs at least 100bhp/ton, and this has that.

Plus, if 125PS still seems an insufficient amount for a 1200kg car, remember that Japan still has the biggest tuning industry of all, and many companies - Mugen, HKS, Noblesse, to name a few - have already taken it on, so power upgrades shouldn't be far away. But 150-180PS should be enough for most people in a FWD car of this size.

If I had money, I would consider it...

By Mikeado on 25 March, 2010, 2:58pm

Gaffer1986

Yes...Gaffer you put your arguments in a civilized way and that's impresses me more than your points...

Your Seat is a pleasant enough motor...Don't get me wrong!

But again, I point out, it (the Ibiza) ain't a CR-Z competitor...the CR-Z is for a start a small "proper" coupe and its USP, is that it is a proper sporty-hybrid for the mass market built by a reputable Japanese manufacturer which has a reputation for quality engineering! Not been done before...

Like the IPOD and IPhone you pay a little premium over the more traditional technology (such as a 3dr Seat Ibiza TDi) but that's why early adopters dont mind...They want that little bit of difference and uniqueness and purchase price is not all-ways of over-riding importance, if the product is right and retains its value...

Another point, diesels are more than likely, going to get hammered in the future, (in terms of tax and legislation) due to those pollutants that they emit (that petrol doesnt) so those people used to diesel now, are in for a rude awakening sooner or later!

Final point...Yes you are younger than my wise old self, but a decade makes a lot of difference in terms of wisdom!

Look forward to your first Honda...You will like. (I am sure)

By LegioIXHispana on 25 March, 2010, 3:47pm

Fiar Comment but you cant argue with 70 MPG on motorway.

Fair comment LegiolXHispana about the other polutants that diesels emit for which i am ignorant of. I have been driving for 5.5 years and have had 7 cars so as you can see i don't hang on long enough to cars to worry about future taxation.

I would have loved to have bought a Honda because they run on for ever and rarely miss a beat, which is good if i ever decide to keep a car longer than a year.

But i Hate and i mean really hate Honda's styling along with most Jap cars, they are just to much like playstation cars to me and the interiors are laid out horribly with far too many buttons on the steering wheel unlike BMWs excellent i drive system which i shall look forward to in years to come.

I look forward to the BMW 0 series and fully electric cars with instant torque and a few standard sizes of exchangable battery packs. But pray o i must pray they can develop them with manual clutch gearboxes which are fun and engaging.

If they decide to put CVT transmissions in electric cars - which will make them more like a tube train than a car - i will grow old driving what will become Vintage cars with good old fashioned syncro mesh H pattern gearboxes.

By gaffer1986 on 25 March, 2010, 8:57pm

It dont press your buttons? Gaffer

Well I am willing to wager, that once the full road test of the hybrid CR-Z appears ...That the real world economy will be just about on parr with a diesel rival such as say a BMW Mini One D,etc(?)

No one drives at 56mph anywhere and at a constant, therefore official economy figures( by any manufacturer ! ) are ones to be highly sceptical about...Just like CO2 figures(?)

Whatever the rivalry , the good news (in my opinion) is that the future of cars and personal transport, is looking exciting and technology driven...Whether you like your cars with a Western flava or an Eastern flava, as consumers we are in for a treat!

Lucky that we are all young enough to enjoy the future...

By LegioIXHispana on 26 March, 2010, 9:20am

Real World Economy

On the motorway at 70 MPH i do get 70 MPG if on a long enough journey - 45mins plus.

But fair point, hybrids are supposed to keep there economy round town, although i have never driven one to put it to the test.

I must side with you LegiolXHispana as diesels are not the future despite being so frugal. Although i hate to say it, if SEAT, BMW, FIAT, ALPHA, AUDI (among my most liked cars) made a small sporty looking hybrid that did 50+ MPG and had a 6 speed manual clutch gearbox i would have probably bought it as most my driving is around town. (although my current budget is around £14000 max)

I must confess i do have a dislike for eastern styled cars as they look to electronic to me. Not enough soul on the surface (unlike the punto based mito which is beautiful and has more caracter than an excited dog).

By the way (just for your information), the Ibiza gets 52 mpg in very urban stop start conditions.

By gaffer1986 on 26 March, 2010, 7:46pm

Honda hit the nail on the head

Ive owned both vtec and non vtec mk2 CRX's and an original insight, and all rank among all time great cars in my opinion. The CRX vtec was posibly the most fun you could ever have in a 1.6 car, and incredibly rewarding. Way ahead of its time. The insight though while a little quirky, was an engineering masterpiece. It was actually fun too, and was actually pretty supprising how quick it was. And the small matter that the manufacturers economy claims could be beaten. I regularily saw over 90mpg combined.

Anyway onto this. I think Honda have just built my dream car. Honda have always had a very firm handle on one aspect of a car - FUN. This isnt quantifiable like lap times and acceleration etc. Hondas have never been the quickest compared to their preceived competition, but they have always excelled in the experience they gave the driver when in one. This is what will diferentiate it from other cars that acheive similar stats for less money (the aformentioned Seat). Indeed a diesel supermini may well be a better option for many. But he who buys the CRZ will be the one grinning from ear to ear after every drive I bet.

The original insight would have been a real livable proposition if it had a: 4 seats b: 50% more power and c: a bit more grip so it didnt slide quite as much. The CRZ seems to have taken the best bits of every car they have produced in the last 20 years.

My only critisism of it is I wish they had used a slightly bigger IC engine and not the frugal little Jazz unit. A revier 1.6 like the old B16 would make this car perfect.

I cannot wait to own one.

By billysan on 17 June, 2010, 5:50pm