Electric Golf unveiled

Batteries?

Anyone with a laptop or a mobile phone knows that over time the batteries hold less and less charge, so whilst the car may initially have a 90 mile range, what happens after a few years when the range drops to 40 miles, then 20 etc etc.

Replacing the batteries is likely to cost thousands!

By BenS1 on 5 May, 2010, 12:36pm

If using LiFeP04 batteries then the life cycle is around 1000-1500 cycles then 75% capacity after 3000.

So if using LiFep04, the Golf's batteries would last around 135000 miles. Then 67.5 miles after 3000 cycles.

As far as I know The less full discharges the longer the battery will last. So in general if you use < 60% of the battery it would last far more.

in 1999 General motors switched from lead acid to MiMh batteries for the Ev1, which allowed it to travel for up to 150 miles.

General Motors in Michigan purchased the patents from the battery company Ovonics in 1994 For the NiMh battery, then sold them in 2000 to Texaco, then the Oil company Chevron purchased Texaco and would not licence battery makers to make small orders for test cars, unless it was for very large orders, so GM had to scrap the electric car, well that was part of the reason anyway, that's why Toyota can only have small NiMh batteries in the prius.

NiMh batteries are far cheaper than Lithium, and have been successfully tested in small scale vehicles for over 150000 miles. If Chevron sell the patents again it would allow auto makers to make good range EV's and further develope the batteries. They can last up to 1000 cycles, and if cheap enough could be replaced, so if NiMh today could go for 200 miles say, then that would mean 200 miles x 1000 cycles = 200000 miles.

As Far as the Golf goes. I don't think anyone will pay a premium for the VW badge just to go 90 miles when the Nissan Leaf will be released at the end of 2010 which will go for 100 miles and be much cheaper to buy.

By Mad_Lad on 5 May, 2010, 5:39pm

Hmmm..........

Mad_Lad makes a lot of sense with his comments but here's what also worries me with these electric cars. It's all very fine and dandy to say that the Golf will go for 90 miles between charges "with a light foot", but most people who know anything about cars will say that this figure can only be achieved in IDEAL conditions.

Here's my point. Take one electric VW Golf and then pitch it in right in the middle of a winter such as we experienced this year. That means all lights, wipers, rear window heater, (the most demanding component of a car's electrical system after the starter motor on a conventional car), front window demisters and all the rest of it, and suddenly, your 90 mile driving range has been instantly reduced by 60% minimum. I cannot remember reading anywhere how manufacturers intend to guard against that. There isn't a battery on this planet that can safely and categorically state that it can rise above all that. All of this looks great on paper, but the reality is very VERY different.

By nick7 on 6 May, 2010, 9:24pm

Appending To the Above Post

Also, factor this in to the equation as well. What happens when you have all the conditions of the above and you're stuck in a traffic jam. There will be no regenerative braking because you're not actually moving. You can't switch off your lights because the law says they have to be on in poor visibility or of course at night. So, if you can't go anywhere because you're in a huge queue of traffic and any progress you DO make is not going to be anywhere near sufficient to effect a charge to the battery under regenerative braking. You'll only be able to go so far in these conditions before you're well and truly screwed and have to get a tow to your destination. Unless I'm missing something here, this just isn't going to work with the current (no pun intended), technology. More research is necessary to determine a more sustainable answer to the electric car. Yes,manufacturers have a come a long way since the G Whiz all electric car of a few years back, but I don't think it's far enough advanced yet to unleash on the general public.

By nick7 on 6 May, 2010, 9:33pm

all this criticism of electric cars and talk of reality but how far will petrol cars go without oil which is now running out. 90 miles is better than nothing. That is reality, the world's oil can only burn once. However cars are probably a side show in the grand scheme of things as oil runs out

By Dave_the_sage on 7 May, 2010, 11:38pm

I agree with nick7. And it's something I have been thinking about too. I remember when Nissan introduced the leaf, they said the quoted mileage was including any electrical accessories on or off.

I really can't imagine Nissan spending so much money on the leaf for it to only go much under 100 miles, that would be rather damaging. Because we all know all cars are quoted to get a certain mileage and don't. I don't think it will be tolerated for electrics because of their already limited range.

Batteries can only improve and the leaf is more than good enough as a 2nd car for school runs etc. Nissan are already working on a new battery with grater range. check out this link..

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/12/nissan-working-on-new-battery-for-electric-cars.php

By Mad_Lad on 8 May, 2010, 2:37am

OK, so what happens to the millions of spent batteries?
How on Earth will they be stored and recycled?
Battery technology is useless and the research is a total waste of money!
The only sensible solution is hydrogen power. Sadly, politicians haven't figured out how to tax water but I am certain they will figure it out shortly!

By arp5792 on 8 May, 2010, 6:15pm

What will ahppen to the used batteries?

Hi arp5792. That's a good question and there is a simple solution. the batteries are recyclable and when they are not able to supply enough range for an E.V, they can be used for renewable energy storage, as they will still have plenty of available capacity left. So not really a problem with spent batteries.

And battery technology is improving and in a few years time the range will not be an issue, and if the newer lithium batteries can be perfected, will extend the range of E.V's by 8-10 times, meaning the Leaf for instance could go for up to 1000 miles. Not bad. Check out this link

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html

Also Hydrogen is many many years off from what I've been reading and is way too expensive, and storing it in cars to get any good range is a problem. It takes more energy to make hydrogen than you get out, so all that power that's wasted making hydrogen can be used to charge batteries instead. Also electricity is much cheaper than what hydrogen ever will be.

In my opinion, governments and oil companies want to promote hydrogen so they can make more money by controlling it. And electricity will always be cheaper, and people will have the possibility to use their renewable energy systems to charge their cars, cheaper again!!!

By Mad_Lad on 9 May, 2010, 6:48pm

Great until the power cuts arrive in 2013?

To me an even bigger issue than the range and the cost is the availability of power. Many UK power stations will not comply with EU Directives on emissions in 2013/15, and one-third of our capacity will be run down.

I can see us going back to the 1970s in terms of power cuts as the UK cannot simply build or import generating capacity in time.

Will electric car promoters follow Sir Clive Sinclair in ensuring that their creations have a set of pedals :)

By bmooney1 on 13 May, 2010, 5:28pm

Flat Battery???

It will be interesting to see if the breakdown services gear-up when attending stranded motorists of electric vehicles if they arrive with a fully charged power-pack that can fast-charge the battery in say 30minutes or so to get you on your way to the nearest plug. I'd love to have an eletric car for my short journeys and hire a petrol/diesel car for the long ones. Can't see the hydrogen superhighway in the near future.

By LANMAN on 30 June, 2010, 11:44pm